CKLW question [even though it's not in the Cleveland market]

RadioInsight Community Forums Midwest Cleveland CKLW question [even though it's not in the Cleveland market]

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This topic contains 53 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  phil z 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 54 total)
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  • #185209

    schmave
    Participant

    My issue with the CRTC is not that they wanted CKLW to be Canadian-focused, but how bent they are on keeping the signal out of the U.S. (again, fat chance, it’s going to be heard here) and as a non-factor in the Detroit market. Anything on that count would be a bonus for CKLW, IMO.

    What keeps CKLW “out of the U.S. is the current programming. Are Canadians interested in what CKLW is broadcasting? It sounds awfully boring.
    The last time I drove to Detroit (almost 6 years ago) I tried listening to CKWW 560 while driving along I-75. There was a constant line buzz in their signal. As close to Windsor as the “down river” portion of Eastern Michigan is, you would have thought a signal of any wattage would have come through cleanly from just across the river.
    To be clear on this, I wasn’t referring to the programming at all, just the signal itself. Why the CRTC would be all that concerned if the groundwave or skywave hits U.S. soil is what is beyond me. There is zero harm to anyone in Canada if CKLW has a solid signal in Cleveland, Erie, Sandusky, etc. Conversely, of course, many U.S. stations shoot their nighttime directional patterns right up into Canada, including my local WTVN under normal conditions.
    Their programming is of zero interest to me, other than perhaps Coast to Coast, and even that I can hear on many other stations. I don’t expect or ask it to be considering I haven’t lived within 50 miles of Windsor in going on 19 years and never have lived in Canada. But devoting that 50K signal to covering such a small area … to each their own, I suppose. There was a topic on another board a while back regarding “most wasted 50K signals” and I nominated CKLW for exactly the reason I stated above.
    #185210

    John Basalla
    Participant

    A couple or a few years ago I discovered CKWW while driving to work towards Cleveland on I-71.  The signal was pretty good.  I loved their mix of well known Motown and Canadian (CKLW) hits coupled with exciting songs I either never heard before or were reminded of thanks to the station.  For example, they played “Mr. Monday” by The Original Caste, a Canadian pop group whose biggest hit was the original version of “One Tin Soldier”.  I liked “Mr. Monday” so much that I searched for, and bought a copy.

    Then, all of a sudden… one day … they weren’t there and never came back.  They can be listened to on-line, but I very rarely fire up my computer for radio listening.  I like radio for that.

    #185216

    Yekimi
    Participant

    Then, all of a sudden… one day … they weren’t there and never came back. They can be listened to on-line, but I very rarely fire up my computer for radio listening. I like radio for that.

    And here’s why: https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=CKWW&service=AM&s=F

    #185220

    schmave
    Participant

    Is that pattern change recent? I’ve heard them very well driving between Columbus and Cleveland on 71.

    In the thread on another board that I referenced above, the suggestion was made (not by me and in a “I can dream” sort of way), that a poster wishes 580 and 800 could switch formats. Put the Windsor-centric programming on 580 and the oldies on 800. Again, one can dream.

    #185225

    Yekimi
    Participant

    Is that pattern change recent? I’ve heard them very well driving between Columbus and Cleveland on 71. In the thread on another board that I referenced above, the suggestion was made (not by me and in a “I can dream” sort of way), that a poster wishes 580 and 800 could switch formats. Put the Windsor-centric programming on 580 and the oldies on 800. Again, one can dream.

    Been about two years since I’ve been able to pick them up [and that was mostly at night]. If I was north of I-80 they came in very clear during daytime/nightime. Now, they’re a rumor. And CKLW/CKWW switching formats isn’t going to happen. CKWW is only 500 watts, CKLW 50,000. Unlike U.S. stations, I believe Canadian stations have to get permission from the CRTC [Canadian version of the FCC] if they want to switch formats. This is so they don’t have like 8 stations with a country format in one area.
    #185236

    Charles Everett
    Participant

    Why the CRTC would be all that concerned if the groundwave or skywave hits U.S. soil is what is beyond me.

    The CRTC doesn’t regulate the engineering element of Canadian broadcasters. The federal agency formerly known as Industry Canada has that responsibility. And like it or not, any broadcaster operating within a certain distance of the international border has to have the facility coordinated with both countries. It doesn’t matter if the station is in Canada or the US.

    There is zero harm to anyone in Canada if CKLW has a solid signal in Cleveland, Erie, Sandusky, etc.

    It’s not 1969 any more. It’s not even 1939, when CKLW was the Detroit affiliate of the Mutual Broadcasting System.

    #185238

    skiwest
    Participant

    When I used to listen to them in the 60s and early 70s, they always used to say “CKLW, the Motor City”.  But in reality, they were a Windsor station.  How did they get away with that?

    #185239

    michael p
    Participant

    When I used to listen to them in the 60s and early 70s, they always used to say “CKLW, the Motor City”. But in reality, they were a Windsor station. How did they get away with that?

    Maybe Windsor is the “Motor City” for automobiles built in Canada?
    #185241

    schmave
    Participant

    Why the CRTC would be all that concerned if the groundwave or skywave hits U.S. soil is what is beyond me. The CRTC doesn’t regulate the engineering element of Canadian broadcasters. The federal agency formerly known as Industry Canada has that responsibility. And like it or not, any broadcaster operating within a certain distance of the international border has to have the facility coordinated with both countries. It doesn’t matter if the station is in Canada or the US. There is zero harm to anyone in Canada if CKLW has a solid signal in Cleveland, Erie, Sandusky, etc. It’s not 1969 any more. It’s not even 1939, when CKLW was the Detroit affiliate of the Mutual Broadcasting System.

    That’s well and good but none of this really answered any point I made, especially the last line. I cannot imagine a station like CKLW would not have its technical issues ironed out with both countries considering its location and how long it’s been around.
    #185242

    VintageMac
    Participant

    A couple or a few years ago I discovered CKWW while driving to work towards Cleveland on I-71. The signal was pretty good. I loved their mix of well known Motown and Canadian (CKLW) hits coupled with exciting songs I either never heard before or were reminded of thanks to the station. For example, they played “Mr. Monday” by The Original Caste, a Canadian pop group whose biggest hit was the original version of “One Tin Soldier”. I liked “Mr. Monday” so much that I searched for, and bought a copy. Then, all of a sudden… one day … they weren’t there and never came back. They can be listened to on-line, but I very rarely fire up my computer for radio listening. I like radio for that.

    Thanks John (and sante fe in an earlier post) for mentioning CKWW 580 as I had forgotten about the station. I don’t recall if I could pick it up in the past. As for CKLW, it still comes in well at my location near Parma only four or five miles from downtown but WJR comes in a bit stronger and clearer. When I was a kid listening in the late 60’s and early 70’s, it came in quite well on the cheap transistor radios of the time.
    I have been listening to CKWW on their website and it sounds great and is somewhat like the old CKLW with the jingles and “Motor City” references which I do recall from the past. It does have a decent mix of oldies, some of which I never heard or forgot about so it’s nice that you can at least listen on a computer or smartphone.
    #185243

    NuRoo2
    Participant

    When I used to listen to them in the 60s and early 70s, they always used to say “CKLW, the Motor City”. But in reality, they were a Windsor station. How did they get away with that?

    Maybe Windsor is the “Motor City” for automobiles built in Canada?
    I don’t see why yesterday’s CKLW couldn’t have used “Motor City” even if they were referring to Detroit, where the lion’s share of their listeners were.  That said, I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that Windsor has long been involved in auto manufacturing.  Apparently that’s definitely the case today.  When I was listening to the stream for 500-watt CKWW yesterday they referred to “Motor City” several times, and the link below from 2017 cites Windsor as Canada’s top auto manufacturing center (er, centre).  (This discussion makes me want a Tim Horton’s coffee.  Glad we have them in Columbus.)
    #185244

    Nathan Obral
    Participant

    When I used to listen to them in the 60s and early 70s, they always used to say “CKLW, the Motor City”. But in reality, they were a Windsor station. How did they get away with that?

    It isn’t a direct requirement for Canadian TV or radio to do a TOH ID. CIDR/93.9 actually does do a US-style legal ID (“This is CIDR-FM Windsor/Detroit, a division of BellMedia”) but that’s the only one I know of ATM.

    The old “CKLW, the Motor City” TOH jingle fit the motif of the other RKO Drake/Chenault Top 40 stations of that era, plus it was similar in style to a traditional TOH jingle.

    Recorded in Ultra Stereo, the ultimately superior cousin to Normal Stereo!

    #185245

    Eric Jon Magnuson
    Participant

    Is that pattern change recent? I’ve heard them very well driving between Columbus and Cleveland on 71. In the thread on another board that I referenced above, the suggestion was made (not by me and in a “I can dream” sort of way), that a poster wishes 580 and 800 could switch formats. Put the Windsor-centric programming on 580 and the oldies on 800. Again, one can dream.

    Been about two years since I’ve been able to pick them up [and that was mostly at night]. If I was north of I-80 they came in very clear during daytime/nightime. Now, they’re a rumor. And CKLW/CKWW switching formats isn’t going to happen. CKWW is only 500 watts, CKLW 50,000. Unlike U.S. stations, I believe Canadian stations have to get permission from the CRTC [Canadian version of the FCC] if they want to switch formats. This is so they don’t have like 8 stations with a country format in one area.

    Off-hand, I don’t think there’d be a rule against switching formats here.  There are some general regulations that might come into play, but most of the requirements for specific formats/programming are actually conditions that are attached to a particular license.  (In places like the UK and especially Ireland, there are stronger regulations about changing formats.)

    More importantly, it’d make no sense to swap the formats here:  As mentioned before, CKLW’s Talk format easily leads the market–while CKWW’s Oldies format is pretty much at the bottom (with a 1.7-percent share, behind all of the rated stations other than the local CBC Music outlet [CBE]).

     

    #185248

    John Basalla
    Participant

    When I was listening to AM580 CKWW, I would only hear it in the daytime, never at night.  Mostly I listened to it in my car, driving around Cleveland, Ohio or to and from the city on I-71.

    #185251

    thenetwork
    Participant

    Not sure about nowadays, but back in the 80s, most Canadian radio stations could only play Top-40 music on AM.  It was weird traveling through Ontario in my car hearing so many stations playing the current hits on my AM radio.

    When CKLW went big band in the mid 80s, they tried to bring the original CKLW format over to the FM side at 93.9.  CRTC required and granted an “experimental license”  for their first foray, “The Fox”, which was more Top 40 than anything.  By 1986, they again got permission, this time to become an oldies station under the old CKLW call letters.  With the FM format came many restrictions including:  1) The Canadian Content rule (40% MAPL-certified tunes — not too hard with a 25-year musical library spread), 2) A minimum percentage of instrumentals had to be played during the day — they had an hour-long show around 10PM in which they played nothing but 60-90 second clips of instrumental tunes to cover this, as well as playing instrumentals under PSA’s and traffic reports. 3) A Canadian-based specialty show — this show was called “Tapestry” and was a weird show mixing stories of adventure and fantasy with music.

    The CRTC seemed to try everything to make CKLW-FM fail, but it did okay despite the high hurdles.   Then around 1988, 94.9 had to give up their call letters and become CKMR/More 94.  I believe some of the bizarre requirements were relaxed by that time (no more instrumental clip hour, no more Tapestry) and the station remained an oldies station.

    Not long after that, 93.9 had an identity crisis, changing from More 94 to I-94 and then back to CKLW, IIRC before going to their current format as The River/CIDR.  Not sure if this was from battling the CRTC and thus gaining or losing ground in formatics or not.

    I’m sure there is a more complete and interesting story out there on the evolution of the radio stations at the corner of Oulette & Tecumseh in Windsor, but I’m going on bits and pieces that were told to me by credible sources.

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